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On March 9, Professor Kenneth Ruoff gave a lecture at the Northeast Asian History Foundation: "Japan's Postwar Symbolic Emperor System: A Return to the 'Authentic' Imperial System?" He is one of the most renowned Western scholars on the study of Japan's Emperor System. Mr. Yeon Min-su, a researcher at the Foundation, had an interview with Dr. Ruoff and discussed various interesting issues. – Editor's note

I read your book, <The People's Emperor: Democracy and the Japanese Monarchy, 1945-1995>, and it says you are the most respected scholar in the study of Japan's Emperor System. What brought you to study Japan's Emperor System?

I wanted to pursue further studies on democracy when I was in graduate school. Then, I realized that I can study democracy in postwar Japan by looking at its Emperor System. Before the war, Japan's nationalism was contradictory to democracy. When the war was over, Japanese people had to seek nationalism that is in accord with democracy, and that was the Emperor System, which later became the symbol of democracy in Japan. It is not true that today's nationalism in Japan poses a threat to us. Except for extreme left-wing or right-wing nationalism, almost all forms of nationalism in today's Japan advocate democracy. This can be seen as a great leap forward in Japan since the war.

The Emperor and the Emperor System take up a very important part in Japanese history. What is Japanese people's perception of the Emperor?

It differs from the past to the present. The biggest difference is that the Emperor could not be the symbol of "nation" in the past, for it was not until modern history that the concept of "nation state" emerged. In modern times, Japanese people were educated that the Emperor was the symbol of the nation state. There still exists controversy among Japanese historians regarding this issue, but most scholars state that common people such as farmers in pre-modern period believed that the Emperor was a kind of shaman living in Kyoto, rather than thinking that it symbolized the nation. To reiterate, there was no such concept as "nation" in pre-modern periods.

Your books tell us that traditions associated with the Emperor derived from modern period, and customs related to the Emperor were borrowed from European monarchies. Could you provide me with further explanation?

If you see the photograph of the current Emperor and Empress on their wedding day, you would notice that they rode through Tokyo in a horse-drawn carriage. There is no "Japanese tradition" in that: everything was borrowed from the British monarchy. Before modern times, the members of Japan's Imperial Family rode in a palanquin, which is a covered sedan chair. A horse-drawn carriage would have looked very traditional in 1959 when cars and trains were already introduced to Japan, but in fact, it was borrowed from European monarchies and had nothing to do with Japanese traditions. A Japanese national who knows very well about Japan's Imperial Family once made a joke – if the Emperor wishes to be truly "traditional", he should break from monogamy and marry several wives. What I am trying to say here is that not only Japan's Imperial Family but also the British Royal Family are quite "modern", although they want to give the impression that they are traditional. Most of the "traditions" they say are in fact invented in modern times.

With regard to dynasties, it is common that those who exercised power in the previous dynasty disappear when others seize power. In contrast, Japan's Emperor System has survived through time from ancient times to this day. What do you think is the reason for this interesting phenomenon?

First of all, let me point out the fact that it is not likely Japan's Imperial Family has never died out. In the 14th century, there were conflicts between northern and southern dynasties in Japan, and there was controversy as to which dynasty carried on the authentic imperial lineage. As such, it may not be true that Japan's imperial lineage has never died out to this day. I cannot give you a very creative answer as to how Japan's Emperor System has managed to survive through time, but perhaps it is because most Japanese Emperors did not directly engage in politics. Although the real power changed from one to another, the new person in power could politically take advantage of the Emperor without having to kill him.

Since the Meiji Restoration, Japan's Emperor System was combined with militarism. This led to Japan's aggressions and expansion, and it resulted in significant damage and huge suffering across Asia. According to the Constitution of the Empire of Japan at that time, the Emperor was the head of the Empire and had the right to exercise supreme command as the monarch. After Japan's defeat, however, the U.S. did not question the Emperor's responsibility for war. The continued existence of the Emperor System is often used by right-wing extremists in Japan to justify Japan's wrongdoings in the past. Do you think if the US bears responsibility for this?"

My answer is "yes", but it is a very complex story. The US could easily get rid of the Emperor, killing him as a war criminal, but it decided to protect the Emperor so that he could be used for the US rule. The US could also take advantage of the Emperor, amend the constitution, and then dethrone him and let his son, Akihito, ascend to the throne. The US chose to keep Hirohito as the Emperor, and the biggest problem resulting from the decision is that Japanese people were not able to frankly express their views about the war for a period much longer than the US had expected. The death of Hirohito coincided with the end of the Cold War, but it was not the only reason. His death led to a sudden outburst of opinions and views on the war among Japanese people.

You mentioned that right-wing extremists in Japan concluded that the status of the Emperor as a post-war symbol means a return to genuine Japanese traditions. In my view, this is a correct judgment on the status of the Emperor. Throughout history, Japan has maintained dual power system, and those who seized power took advantage of the Emperor in politics.

In a broader sense, I can agree that Japan's postwar symbolic Emperor System points to a return to Japanese traditions. But Japanese conservatives always fail to address two important issues. Firstly, postwar symbolic Emperor System is defined within the constitution and the fact that sovereign power resides with the people. As such, it is different from the Emperor System back in 1868 and before. This means that the Emperor System can be abolished if Japanese people decide to do so. Secondly, the current Emperor System is far from authentic Japanese traditions. As I mentioned earlier, most of the customs are products of modern and contemporary history, and borrowed from abroad. In short, today's Imperial Family in Japan is neither traditional nor purely Japanese, and it exists within the boundary of the constitution and popular sovereignty. All these aspects are different from the Emperor System in the past.

Today, Japan's Emperor System is at a critical juncture. There are concerns that the Emperor System will not be maintained due to the fact that the right to ascend to the throne is currently limited to males of the imperial family. If this happens, you said that right-wing extremists will find a new symbol that will help them gather people and forces. What do you think will be the new symbol that will replace the Emperor?

They only take advantage of the Emperor in order to achieve their goals. After World War II, French right-wing extremists could not use the royal family as a symbol for the nation, and they presented Joan of Arc as a new symbol and pursued policies against immigrants. In a similar vein, Japanese extremists will be able to find something else as a substitute for the Emperor System. At the beginning of the Meiji Restoration, the Emperor was not a special figure in the minds of common people. Afterwards, Japan continued to instill in its people throughout the Meiji Restoration period that the Emperor holds great significance as the symbol of the "nation state", and the Emperor was made into a special figure. In a similar manner, I expect that a new symbol can be made and instilled in the next generation.

I believe that there is merit in broadening our perspectives when studying Japan's Emperor System. We should not only study Japanese history but also look at external factors and their influence. For example, the relations with Shilla and Tang Dynasty of China had an impact on the Emperor System in ancient times, and the dynamics with western powerhouses also influenced the system in modern times. Accordingly, I think that we need to look at the issue in a wider context of East Asian or even world history.

It is an excellent question, and I guess it would anger conservatives and right-wing extremists in Japan, who claim that Japan's Emperor System is unique and special. However, there is nothing special in Japan's Emperor System when we look at world history in modern times. Without a doubt, I believe that it should be considered in the context of East Asian and world history. It was affected by China and Korea to a large extent, and by many other countries in modern times. We can see the rise of nationalism in most modern nation states, and Japan just came to utilize the Emperor System as a symbol of nationalism. I really enjoyed discussing various issues with you, and I appreciate that you presented many insightful and in-depth questions regarding Japan's Imperial Family.

I also enjoyed the conversation with you, and it provided me with a good opportunity to better understand Japan's Emperor System. I am sure that readers in Korea and abroad will be interested in the issues we discussed today. I wish you the best for future studies and research, and hope we continue to exchange views and share ideas in the years to come.